I've got a suggestion that I'd like to submit to the staff and membership of ZRPG for their consideration. It may or may not help but it's an idea that I feel has merit.

Anyone who knows me is already familiar with my burning hatred of Wind Waker. Don't judge me man. >_> Anyway, one of my major hang-ups on this board has been coming to the attention of others with the current article contest going on. That of course being the debate over whether certain races should be represented by the traditional (and slightly outdated) incarnations from older games in the series or the cartoony, comical (and more elaborate in terms of gameplay) versions from the Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, etc. style.

Now, if it were up to me you know I'd toss anything that smats of WW into the gutter. But ZRPG blends a lot of themes and character classes from various games in the series and the staff is very flexible when it comes to giving the membership freedom to design characters based on their own personal preferences. Board canon regarding the various races reflects this, allowing for multiple incarnations of the same character class to accommodate the different versions of said character that have appeared throughout the Zelda series over the years.

After giving this issue some thought I came up with an idea that might better suit this policy. I'll elaborate on the idea with a prime example of what I'm talking about:

Wizzrobes & Darknuts

Both of these character concepts have been around for a long time and have undergone cosmetic makeovers with just about every game they've appeared in. Some people prefer the Wind Waker version of Wizzrobes with their avian appearance over the humanoid spellcasters that appear in other games. The same goes for the canine Darknuts from WW as opposed to the heavily armored humans from Twilight Princess.

Which is the "real" version? How should they be represented by ZRPG's multi-game canon? Do we have to choose one over another or can we use both?

Here's my thoughts on the subject: use both.

In retrospect I've realized that anthromorphic animal creatures were around long before WW ever existed. To that end I propose the following:

Classify characters such as Wizzrobes and Darknuts as a character class but allow different races to make use of them.

For example, Wizzrobes. Are they human or are they avian? I say they can be either if the term "Wizzrobe" is defined as any dedicated spellcaster rather than representing a particular race. If you want a human version from one of the Gameboy titles just say they're a human Wizzrobe. But what about the avian spellcasters from WW? That's easy. There's no need to classify a Wizzrobe as an individual race when an avian race already exists in the Zelda universe. After all, who is to say the WW versions of Wizzrobes can't be a Fokka? They're both basically the same race, just with different occupations. One is an armored warrior while the other is a robed spellcaster.

The same goes for Darknuts. They can be classified as any heavily armored warrior regardless of their race. Naturally there'd be human Darknuts as in the original LoZ as well as TP but the canine variety from WW could belong to the Tinsuit race. Classifying Darknuts as canine while armored humans have to be Iron Knuckles isn't entirely fair after all. According to OoT Iron Knuckles are cursed to forever wear their armor, never able to remove it. They're just not the same type of character.

Anyway, that's what I came up with. It may help with the issue or it might make it worse. Still, I wanted to share it with you guys. In my humble opinion this would open up a whole new level of creative freedom that will hopefully make everyone happy with no compromises having to be made where canon is concerned.

Good argument Bear


I like the idea of diversity, having them more as classes then races. it would explain the variation between people who play human darknuts and the people who play the canine [me for example] it explains why they are not a uniform set in stone thing.

As it stands right now, as a wizzrobe, you can be both; a race or a class. The race will have to be of the avian variety, but as a class, well, its up to you.

As for the Darknut, they appeared as canines first, and with their TP version not really showing otherwise, they will have to remain simply canines of either male/female variety.

After hacking my TP game to make every stone, horsegrass, and pumpkin in the game to turn into a Darknut, I have a vast experience with this particular incarnation of the imfamous foe. I have looked at these enemies from every angle, and have examined their armor in great detail using the Hawkeye. Yet what I wasn't expecting was what I found when I removed all of their outer armor, leaving just the chainmail hauberk underneith. Most importantly I looked at their head. At first it appears like no facial features are visible under the armet, yet what concerned me was the head seemed strangely small.

Yet upon closer inspection I realized I missed half of the picture. In fact, their nose, mouth, and chin sticks out of the helmet, and reveals darker, almost maroon skin, a rather round or fatty nose, and a very thin mouth. Naturally this doesn't indicate that the foes in Twilight Princess are the canine version from Wind Waker. Yet taking their size into account, especially when compared to Link, it seems in Twilight Princess they are humanoid, perhaps even some sort of half-giant.

That said, I think the race shouldn't make so much of a difference, and that Darknuts should be more of a 'class'. Darknuts are obviously a pun on Dark Knights, and Dark Knights historically are merely knights with no particular allegience, and are practically mercenaries for hire. What we could say is that there is a lifestyle called the Darknut, whereas people of various races for many years have been living in this lifestyle, which might explain why there are differing races assuming this role. One could even go so far as to say the Zora Warriors in PH are fulfilling this role from another race's perspective.

This of course is just my sense of this. The fact that the board bases its physical appearance in a vast majority upon ALttP, OoT, WW, TP, AoL, and even the original LoZ as opposed to WW, PH, MC, and the other titles that don't seem to have much artistic reference to the former makes me want to think that Darknuts shouldn't be relegated to something uncommon in ZRPG's Hyrule. I'd rather see Darknuts opened to races which have more information on them rather than very little that is known from the canine Darknuts of WW.

Or, like the Ruto and Zora allegedly, the races could have evolved over time. If it worked for one, it worked for another, right?

We also need to rememeber we're OoT, and as such, I will fight to keep as much of board canon based soley on that game. Along with MM of course.

I don't like including the Darknut or Wizzrobe variations so...

I'm not sure who, but in the last thead on this subject someone bought up the 'Madalorian and Sith' point about names/titles that are applicable both to a race and to an order/way of life. Having Wizrobes as a race doesn't stop you making a Hylian with Wizrobe as their class, and having Darknuts as a race doesn't stop the creation of either members of the Darknut order from a different species, or the use of the more generic 'Dark Knight' character archetype from which the name is derived.

Li mentioned MM. In that game, Wizzrobes are blue-skinned old men with elemental powers, illusions, and some form of teleportation. They're also really hard to kill, even with the Great Fairy's Sword.

That's all.

EDIT: Also, Gord, it's 'Mandalorian'. With an n.

Fair enough. It was just an idea I thought I'd share. If it doesn't work then no harm done in mentioning it right?

Those are wiZrobes.

Until someone can find an official quote from Nintendo saying that it was a mistake, board canon has those blue things from MM as being wiZrobes.

I really wouldn't be surprised if it was a spelling mistake - they'd already done the same thing in the same game with Dinalfos.

I wouldn't be, I expect it to be a spelling error. But until they say that it is, it is in the game and so it shall be board canon ):

I guess. Although I went ahead and ignored the Dinalfos thing anyway. xD

wow.